After seeing the film film directed by Jean-Daniel Verhaeghe , according to a scenario Jean-Claude Carriere inspired by real events (see The Controversy of Valladolid ). we chose to read an excerpt from the novel: discout about "humanity" of certain people .... men have always been the same ...
Arguing in oral
Objective: Learn to debate taking into account the opinions of others. The hearings shall be prepared: this is a debate inconsistent with the obligation to restate the thesis and arguments of the opponent .
Jean-Claude Carriere: The Controversy of Valladolid: Chapter 7: The theater scene between Las Casas and Sepulveda
Pope sent one of his cardinals to decide the debate between Las Sepulveda Casas. The Dominican Republic maintains that Indian men are like the Europeans. Sepulveda instead says that Indians are born to be slaves. The study of this passage is relevant in three axes. We will study first the two opposing viewpoints, the Sepulveda initially and then as Las Casas, third party to analyze the role of the Cardinal and the theatricality of the text.
Text: Then he said with equal firmness
- Yes, Your Eminence, the inhabitants of the New World are slaves by nature. In all respects with the description of Aristotle.
- This statement requires proof, the prelate said softly.
Sepulveda does not deny it. Moreover, knowing that inevitable question, he prepared an entire folder. He grasps the first sheet.
- First, he says, the first that were discovered have shown themselves incapable of any initiative of any invention. In contrast, we saw them adept at copying the gestures and attitudes of Spaniards, their superiors. To do something, they only needed to watch another perform it. This tendency to copy, accompanied by a real ingenuity elsewhere in imitation, is the nature of the soul slave. Soul of a craftsman, manual soul so to speak.
- But we sang an old song! exclaims Las Casas. At all times the invaders to justify their hold, said the conquered peoples indolent, lacking, but very able to imitate! Caesar told the same thing that the Gauls enslaved! They showed, he said, an amazing ability to copy the Roman techniques! We can not hold this argument here! Caesar deliberately blind to the true life of the peoples of Gaul, their customs, their languages, beliefs and even their tools! He did not, and therefore could not see everything that life offered original. And we do well: we see only what they imitate us! Otherwise, we should drop or we destroy it forever, to then say it does not exist!
The cardinal, who did not abort the Dominican, seems aware of this new argument, which focuses customs of the peoples. He noted that this is a forum for discussion of the most delicate, where we constantly risk being bewitched by habit, taken from childhood, we have our own uses, which we seem thus far superior to other uses.
- Except when it comes to slave-born, "said the philosopher. Because it is clear that the Indians wanted to buy our weapons almost immediately and our clothes.
Some of them, probably yes, "replied the cardinal. Although it is difficult to distinguish in their grounds, which is a sincere admiration or mere sycophancy. What other brands natural slavery have you identified with them?
Sepulveda took a bundle of leaves and begins reading to voice flat as an accurate record and indisputable:
- They ignore the use of metal, Firearms and wheel. They carry their burdens on their backs, like animals during long journeys. Their food is horrible, similar to that of animals. They paint the body coarsely and worship idols awful. I will not return to human sacrifice, which is the brand most hateful and most offensive to God, their state. Las Casas
not talking yet. It only takes a few notes. All this not surprised.
- I would add that they are described as stupid our children or idiots. They change very frequently women, which is a very real sign of savagery. They obviously lack the nobility and the rise of the beautiful sacrament of marriage. They are timid and cowardly in war. They also ignore the nature of money and have no idea of the relative value of things. For example, they exchanged against gold glass broken barrels.
- Well? exclaims Las Casas. Because they do not worship the gold and silver at the point of sacrificing their body and soul, is this a reason to treat animals? Is not this the opposite?
- You divert my thoughts, "replied the philosopher.
- Why would you their detestable food? Have you tried? Is it not rather say to them what they think good or less good? Because a food is different from ours, should we find it disgusting?
- They eat ant eggs, tripe flies ...
- We eat pork tripe! And snails!
- They jumped on the wine, "said Sepulveda, to the point, in many cases, to leave their little reason.
- And we have done everything to encourage them! But do we did not learn, on the other side, they grow fruit and vegetables that so far we were strangers? And some of their tubers are delicious? You say qu'ijs bear their burdens on the back: Do you not know that nature has given them no animal that could do for them? As to paint roughly the body, what do you know? What does the word "rude"?
- Brother Bartolome said the legate, you will speak again, as long as you want. Nothing will be left in the dark, I assure you. But for now, stay silent.
The Dominican, who seems tired, sits down. The cardinal is for the philosopher:
- In your opinion, possession and use Firearms would be evidence of divine protection?
- Proof very obvious.
- However, the Moors possess firearms and use them very well against us.
- They've copied ours. The legate
seems to doubt this last statement. He tries to remember. Did not he read somewhere that the use of gunpowder came from countries of the East? In
assistance, no one can answer with certainty. We prefer to think, and it is actually more comfortable that the firearm is a Christian invention, like most others.
And if by chance, as suggests Count Pittaluga, divine intervention was not clearly shown in the invention itself (which lasted for centuries, to what they say), it certainly manifested itself by depriving Indians until their conquest of such weapons. Thus the poverty of their military equipment not only shows the backwardness of their technique, but that God deprived them of any real defense.
The legate, putting aside the question back to Sepulveda:
- Another thing you bring blood sacrifices they made to their gods.
- Gods cruel, horrible, a true reflection of the people.
- Yes, yes, it is indeed a demonic horror. We all agree. But if they are not human beings at the same level as ours, they are close to animals, can we blame them for that sacrifice? You know what I mean?
Jean-Claude Carriere: The Controversy of Valladolid: Chapter 11: The intervention of the Indian
In 1550, a convent in Valladolid, the Pope sent Cardinal Roncieres to arbitrate a debate which opposes the Dominican philosopher Sépulvdéa Las Casas, about the nature of American Indians. The question asked by the Cardinal refers the Indian woman who prevented her husband to intervene when a monk knocked on the idol. This is what revived the debate.
Text: - Did you see? He failed to intervene! Many voices
approve: Yes, he has shown his stubborn idolatry. Undoubtedly, as stated a few moments earlier the philosopher, he is abandoned by God, he is subject to all the blind forces, a wandering creature gripped between the legs of the devil.
[...]
Cardinal grants this point, could hardly talk.
